GM
General Motors Company
stock NYSE

Make no mistake, Ontario-Hyundai deal is for a Software Defined Factory via Alloy Kore.

[https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/the-ceo-steering-hyundais-26-billion-u-s-betand-its-push-into-robots-755da56e?st=piupQW&reflink=desktopwebshare\_permalink](https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/the-ceo-steering-hyundais-26-billion-u-s-betand-its-push-into-robots-755da56e?st=piupQW&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink)

GOYANG, South Korea—If the job of a car executive is to sell cars, it is hard to argue with the results of [Hyundai Motor’s](https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/KR/XKRX/005380) [\-5.30% decrease; red down pointing triangle](https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/KR/XKRX/005380) José Muñoz. Last year, Hyundai sold about a million vehicles in the U.S.—39% more than when he joined the company in 2019—and more than four million worldwide.
**Yet Muñoz, the first non-Korean chief executive of the South Korean carmaker, seems to be worried that Hyundai is moving too slowly in an era of tariffs and technological change. He wants to shake up its hierarchical culture, expand into robots and flying cars, and build factories in the U.S. faster.**
“We’re focusing on accelerating,” he said of the company’s roughly [$26 billion plan](https://www.wsj.com/business/south-koreas-hyundai-motor-increases-u-s-investment-to-26-billion-694b8691?mod=article_inline) to invest in the U.S. in an interview. “The sooner the better, so we can enjoy our investments.”
So far the stock market likes his gambles on high-tech moonshots. When Hyundai showed off its Atlas humanoid robot in January, the stock price skyrocketed. It is up 80% in just the past month.
Aug. 2025Sept.Oct.Nov.Dec.Jan. '26-20020406080100120140160180%HyundaiGeneral MotorsToyotaVolkswagen
On Thursday Hyundai [reported a 22% drop in net income](https://www.wsj.com/business/earnings/hyundai-quarterly-profit-halves-on-tariff-hit-727475f7?mod=article_inline) for 2025, stung by President Trump’s tariffs on imported cars such as Korean-made Hyundais, although global revenue hit a record. Trump stoked uncertainty again on Monday by [threatening to restore 25% U.S. tariffs on South Korea](https://www.wsj.com/world/asia/trump-threat-on-south-korea-jolts-trade-partners-who-thought-they-had-deals-c9146efa?mod=article_inline) just three months after the two countries had agreed to lower the rate to 15%.
Muñoz, who has met Trump several times, said he believed the president understood Hyundai’s commitment to the U.S. 
In the [unpredictable Trump age](https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/hyundai-kia-trump-raid-tariffs-71c6db33?mod=article_inline), the CEO wants his people to be ready for anything—and he reflects that in his management style. 
When he addressed roughly 1,000 local sales employees early this year in this Seoul suburb, aides had Korean translations of his English-language speech ready to display on a large screen. But Muñoz scrapped the canned speech. He grabbed a microphone and invited an interpreter to join him on stage, where he told the troops that 2026 couldn’t be just another year of business as usual.
**Radical break**
Muñoz, a 60-year-old Spanish-U.S. dual national, didn’t start out as an auto-industry man. He earned a Ph.D. in nuclear engineering in his native Spain during the 1980s and worked in the country’s nuclear-energy sector. Back then, he didn’t even own a car.
After repeatedly missing the final train back home in Madrid, Muñoz, at a friend’s urging, decided to purchase a vehicle. The friend introduced him to a friendly car saleswoman.
“This dealer became my wife,” Muñoz recalled. It didn’t take long for her to recommend a career in cars.
After stints at Daewoo Motors, a now-defunct Korean carmaker, and at [Nissan](https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/JP/XTKS/7201), where he was a top lieutenant to Carlos Ghosn, Muñoz joined Hyundai in 2019. As global chief operating officer, he oversaw U.S. sales.
Hyundai’s popularity in the U.S. has [risen in recent years](https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/hyundai-kia-ev-tesla-7936b777?mod=article_inline) with models such as the Tucson sport-utility vehicle, and it regularly wins industry awards for design, technology and quality. Together with sister brand [Kia](https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/KR/XKRX/000270), Hyundai controls about 10% of the American market, trailing only [General Motors](https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/GM), [Toyota](https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/JP/XTKS/7203) and Ford. Globally, the Hyundai-Kia duo holds third place after Toyota and [Volkswagen](https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/XE/XETR/VOW3).
**Muñoz at a Hyundai studio in Goyang, South Korea.**
The successes earned Muñoz a promotion to CEO of Hyundai Motor. The company’s ultimate decision maker is [Euisun Chung](https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/hyundais-new-chairman-charts-high-tech-futurewithout-apple-for-now-11613574638?mod=article_inline), executive chair of Hyundai Motor Group and grandson of the founder. But Muñoz’s elevation was a trailblazing move, both for the company and for South Korea. He is the only foreigner to have served as chief executive of a company among South Korea’s top 30 business groups, according to Park Ju-gun, CEO of Leaders Index, a Seoul-based corporate research firm.
The Trump administration delivered plenty of jolts in Muñoz’s first year. In September, U.S. immigration authorities [targeted the construction site of a battery-production plant](https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/why-hyundai-raid-wont-crush-the-korean-carmaker-0a4a0e4a?mod=article_inline) jointly operated by Hyundai and [LG Energy Solution](https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/KR/XKRX/373220). More than 300 South Koreans, many with specialized know-how, were detained, although none of them were direct employees of Hyundai. They flew back home after getting released.
Muñoz said in the interview that the plant should open in the first half of this year. The “vast majority” of the workers who were detained have obtained new visas and are back in Georgia helping finish the plant’s construction, he said.
Muñoz has sought to shake up Hyundai’s culture, fearing its hierarchies could shield top executives from the truth or throttle innovation. He started holding regular unscripted town halls, an unusual move in South Korea.
At first, when the time came for questions, the room fell silent. Now there is a reward for breaking the ice: The person asking the initial question is sometimes offered a day off from work.
Muñoz doesn’t speak fluent Korean. But he has coined an internal phrase based on a pair of common Korean expressions: “pali, pali,” which means quickly, and “miri, miri” which means in advance.
He calls the principle “PM squared.” 
**Beyond cars**
Like other car executives, Muñoz is pushing a dual-track policy for the U.S. and China. In the U.S., he wants to double the number of hybrid models to more than 18 by 2030 while slowing the transition to fully electric vehicles. In China, where he traveled recently, some 20 new EV models are planned.
“While in the past I was going to China to teach them about competition,” Muñoz said, “now I go to learn.”
But Muñoz’s vision for Hyundai goes beyond cars. 
Hyundai should become “a tech company, mobility company” that “happens to sell cars,” said Muñoz. He was speaking at a Hyundai studio in a Seoul suburb where one of the company’s yellow robot dogs—named “Spot” and primarily designed for work sites—roamed a showroom floor with luxury vehicles.
“Spot” walks around the Goyang showroom.
Hyundai has a partnership with artificial-intelligence leader Nvidia, using 50,000 Blackwell chips to make its manufacturing smarter and bring real-time AI functions to its vehicles and robots. 
The company in 2021 bought a controlling stake in Boston Dynamics, known for its videos of robot dogs, and has deepened its push into robotics since then.
The Atlas robot, shown at a Las Vegas trade show in January, can twist its head, torso and joints 360 degrees—and replace its own batteries at a charging station. These industrial robots are set to be deployed in [Hyundai’s “Metaplant” facilities in Georgia](https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/hyundai-factory-georgia-automation-jobs-6d7d4e5d?mod=article_inline) from 2028.

Historically this stock traded at a relatively rich P/FCFA2S (trailing and forward) which reflected their capability to buy smaller VMS very accretively.
However the size disadvantage has caught up to them meaning their acquisitions need to be bigger to move the dial, and those acquisitions are more hotly contested (lower IRR hurdle). You've seen it in the numbers with;
- historically they could grow revenue without any movement in net debt. However the past few years net debt has been growing with revenue. This meant CSU used to completely fund the acquisitions with internally generated cash, now they need debt to sustain revenue growth. Dividends payables have not moved so its not due to any impact from capital management.
- ROE (using FCFA2S) has been going down from 70% pre COVID to now 50%. However the decline of ROIC (using FCFA2I) is more severe which makes sense given the greater use of debt.
- there is no benefit from operating leverage which makes sense given the decentralised nature of the operating model. GM and EBITDA margins have not changed at all except during COVID when they had low travel expenses and booked government handouts as a cost offset. That means there is not a positive JAWS story they are growing into.
So ignoring the potential news/noise from Mark Leonard stepping down or AI its still very evident the business profile or outlook is noticeably inferior to many years ago. How much of the derating so far do you think is justified?

They have hundreds of millions of users who are probably gonna stay loyal, but in the end it seems like they're gonna have to stay in the consumer-facing side, like selling ads and subscriptions to monitize end users. They're losing the corporate integration game to Gemini (Apple, walmart, GM, etc), and the software development game to Claude.
Not sure how profitable you can be selling ads to a couple hundred million, certainly not worthy of a 1T+ valuation or even anywhere close.
The long term big money bet of AI has always been integration into corporate processes (i.e, automating work), and as of now they seem to have lost the ball on that.

This is the NBA equivalent of Dallas Mavericks GM, Nico, trading their franchise star who took them to the finals to get players who he hopes will take them to the finals next year. LMAO.

Hear, hear. I didn't start as a boglehead, but slowly shifted over time as I learned from mistakes. My golden rule was to always save 10% of my income into savings, retirement or investment accounts since my first job, and everything just scales up & compounds.

I some of my first mutual funds from my 20s have been swapped for lower cost funds; my stock picking was a mixed bag of losing everything on GM and LL, but getting lucky with Apple, Amazon & Tesla. I now limit my single stocks to a tenth of my account, mostly still just taking profits from my original picks if they become overweight.

My exponential gains seem to all be in the last 8 years once I got with the program!

> companies arent paying out any dividends and that invalidates the whole concept of stocks anyways
ben felix did a video about this, no dividends just means value that would be dividends stays in the company, thus pumping your stock price up. its in equilibrium.
if I buy ford at $10 and hold on for 40 years and it doesnt give dividends and at the end is worth $60, i can sell for a $50 profit
if i buy GM at $10 and hold on for 40 years and it does give dividends, and say its worth $40 at end, then I must have got $20 in dividends over 40 years because $20+$40-$10 = $50 profit (to be in equilibrium with previous example)

I have no idea but he says “like never before” so think way outside that box. Not that I’d want him to buy GM but what else is huge and underperforming? Maybe it’s IBM ?? I don’t know I’m just stoked something has been said so that to me means the deal is or almost is complete. Hopefully my warrants that I’ve been stacking will print and I’ll end up xx,xxx holder. Time and pressure will tell.

Why GM and how? Its like 79 billy

GM libtards 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸 fukkk
wtf is going on. This earning season has demonstrated one thing, stay off Reddit because these cry baby snowflakes know nothing. lol at all these economic/market posts which are simply wrong. Until spending goes down, this means nothing. The deficit will continue to grow, we will continue to print money and asset prices will melt up. S&P and chill, it’s that easy. Too many regard losers on this site crying about matters which can’t be changed and have lasting consequences.
Guess what happens if there is a recession or black swan? Easy money once again along with all the absurd covid market saving measures amplified.
Record earnings still! Even when you think the consumers may have pulled back even slightly they prove you wrong once again.

Yep. I seem to recall GM pulling some "monkey business" with their pension plan back in the early, 2010s, changing the deal for people who had already retired and had likely planned on received a certain amount. They were offering "lump sum" buyouts, or putting them into an annuity or something, and either scenario meant the retirees would get less than they had planned for.

They also fund it through Starlink. They do work NASA can’t do (remember when they got the astronauts back?).
FYI - Ford has had 10bn from grants/subsidies in the last couple of years, GM has had 3bn in the last few years.

After some sleep, some legit concerns about MSFT:
1) Office 365 is fine – 14% grower so AI clearly helping sustain growth rates but not accelerating. Makes sense as functionality kind of lame and many people can just switch to ChatGPT for document summary, etc. I don't subscribe to co-pilot, no need.
2) Azure – Great growth but big increasing mix towards serving Open AI and question is at what margin? ORCL says this is a 30-40% GM business while MSFT OM currently 47%. Open AI isn't stupid so reasonable to question MSFT's margin trajectory from here.
Another cut at it is cloud is currently a 200b run-rate , and OpenAI RPO implies 100b / year rolling into model over the next 2.5 years.
3) Internal use of GPUs – What for? I thought they mostly used Open AI / Anthropic models to power their AI services. Questionable ROIC here.
4) Cash flow really benefitting from OBBB tax treatment. Benefit should continue but will reverse in 3-5 years as equipment is fully depreciated potentially compounded by capex levels not ramping at comparable rates as revenue (ie declining over time). This is a problem for a later day perhaps.
**Definitely more question than answers.**
That being said, we're at 22x my 2026 GAAP EPS ex Open AI.
So probably washed out for now.

Tried to buy 500 more this AM and these none available. Hopefully this GM meeting is a good one.

GM

It seems that the attraction is the high growth rate relative to other assets. This is good, but is not guaranteed in any way (ask any GM retiree, Enron employee, or other company employee that subjected its people to shenanigans).
Part of the attraction of "Bogling" is that although you don't match the peak performers you have a broad base and stability; you're essentially investing in the economy as a whole which is "guaranteed" to match the economy as a whole, more or less which grows over the long term. It may go down, but (with luck) won't go away completely overnight. I started in 2003 and gnash my teeth over not bailing in late 2007, but am standing at 400%+ gains over that time period now.
So, how much to keep? Up to you depending on your age/goals etc. but it's certainly ripe to do a bit of periodic [SWOT analysis](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/swot.asp) or similar on the company's prospects, particularly since you have legal inside information.

Buy the dip on LAC, they don't need price floors guarantees. The fundamentals of supply and demand will take care of pricing to their benefit as lithium supply will be in deficit when their mine comes on-line or shortly thereafter. It's also backed by Trump, GM, and DOE loan. Critical to national security. Too big to fail. My next yolo Q12027. I'm going to throw at least 500k on it.

Just wait until VW, Ford, GM, Stellantis, BMW, Hyundai, Kia, Toyota, Honda, BYD, Nio, XPeng, Rivian, Lucid, Aptera etc..etc.etc.. announce their own autonomous taxi services and robots! It'll be amazing at how all these companies with $50-$150 billion market caps all suddenly become trillion dollar companies based on simply announcing vaporware coming soon^(TM) .
Just kidding, Tesla isn't only at $1.4 trillion valuation due to vaporware. It's vaporware combined with market manipulation.
I've already mentioned many times in many threads how this stock is being manipulated. It's really very simple. Lots of huge buy and hold forever shareholders, including Musk, his family, his billionaire friends, national wealth funds, pension funds, etc... Then you've got LOADS of buy and hold forever retail traders. Then you had Tesla get into the S&P 500, forcing, under these conditions, S&P index funds to buy up a huge chunk of Tesla shares, which caused the stock to skyrocket. As it was skyrocketing, the index funds used automatic algorithms to increase Tesla's weighting as their share price started to go parabolic, forcing the index to move money out of other assets and into Tesla, forcing the price up higher. This combined with short squeezing, causing Tesla to appreciate by 800% in 2020... most of that in the second half of the year.
Since then, the stock has been a rollercoaster. Down huge, then up huge, then down huge, then up huge, then down huge.. then up huge. It looks like we're about to go into the "down huge" move, probably followed by going up huge again.
On account of Tesla being so heavily weighted in the S&P 500, it serves that when the S&P tanks, it leads to people panicking and pulling money out of the index funds. Since Tesla is one of the highest rated equities in these funds, it causes Tesla stock to be sold at a disproportionately higher level. Since again, there aren't all that many actively traded shares, this causes panic selling, and the stock suddenly cratering.
We saw a perfect example of this in Q1 '25. The S&P 500 sank 21%... while Tesla sank 56%. Hilariously, it took less than a year for Tesla to recoup that loss and hit a new ATH, an over 100% gain.

Welcome back to the aisle where candles look terminal and the stories still twitch. If you only buy clean uptrends and dividend hugs, keep walking. If you fish for resets, pull up a chair.
Small print up front: this is a watchlist, not advice. These are pennies. They are trades, not spouses. If a real catalyst hits, fine, day hold at most. Otherwise, scalp and scoot.
**RІME**. AI logistics with loud ARR talk and a flatlined cap. Needs signed enterprise logos, retention that sticks, and cash collection you can see. If those prints land, you will not buy it at this cap again.
**LЕDS**. Revenue moving, profits missing. This is a gross margin redemption story. Two straight quarters of GM improvement with steady opex and the tape stops laughing.
**NХXT**. Fuel throughput ramping hard into year end. That proves routes and ops. The multiple wakes up only when attach rates for storage or on site power show up in filings. One named microgrid for a healthcare or logistics site with dates changes the tone fast.
**OХBR**. Niche reinsurer that bleeds until underwriting flips. In a firming rate world, two clean quarters can erase a lot of smirks.
**CЕLU**. Cell therapy with real revenue and gross profit while net income screams. Partner funded steps or a clean readout compress losses faster than the market expects.
**BTАI**. Late stage biotech buried by its own chart. Pure binary. Next clinical gate clears and you will not bribe shares under 2 later.
**АCСL**. Operating lines say improve, price says ignore. Positive revenue and EBITDA with modest profit. Give me two more clean quarters on margins and working capital and that mismatch is the edge.
**WLDS**. Wearables cratered from euphoria. Tiny cap, ugly burn, real niche. Needs an actual design win or distribution with units attached or it stays a cautionary tale.
**MYО**. Rehab robotics that looks stuck until reimbursement widens and unit velocity shows up. Adoption curves are flat until they jump.
**TPЕT**. Micro energy with revenue and big losses. Beta to the barrel and the drill bit. If crude smiles and a well hits, leverage does the rest. If not, it chops.
**CSАI**. Cloud or AI infra trying to grow into spend. This is cost discipline plus margin expansion. Show sequential opex control with better GM and the market stops treating it like a coupon.
**GNSS**. Public safety comms that live on awards. Revenue up, earnings red. One statewide or multi city deployment changes the model, not a press blurb.
**SUIG**. China mix with revenue and positive operating income under a macro fog. If prints hold and capital flows thaw, sentiment rerates before models do.
**CССC**. Targeted protein degradation with collab money and heavy R and D. Partner milestones or first clinical step in a high value target and the floor moves.
**BRТX**. Early stage biotech where optionality is the product. You are buying a lottery that sometimes pays, not comfort.
**LHАI**. Prop tech with thin but positive operating income after the IPO sugar crash. If ops stay green, accountants beat memes and the multiple follows.
Ground rules so this stays a hunt, not a hazard. Stories are not buys. Size only after you get fresh paper, a visible margin inflection, or a dated catalyst on the calendar. Otherwise, treat these like clearance rack trades.
Alright then, which toe tag gets rewritten, and which one goes straight back into the drawer tomorrow?
NFA. Discussion only.

I agree about the risk. But I don’t think TSLA would ever be valued as a Ford or GM. Musk did a great job of setting the table. But he’s also not the long-term leader we need.

I certainly hope it isn't just a few hundred, but just because you allocate capex to something doesn't mean things will go to plan. See the trainwreck of Cybertruck and Giga Texas. See what happened to GM and the 2027 Bolt. Or Ford and REVC. Or Gigafactory New York.
If the trucks are too expensive, if they continue to have mechanical problems, if for whatever reason (competition, changing incentives landscapes) customers just don't bite, then it's a dead end, and there's not much you can do about a dead end beyond pouring more money into the fire, something I don't think Tesla is interested in.
Autonomy and TAAS is certainly a potential eventual moonshot out, but we're a ways away from that and it'll require more opex and more capex. By the time we're there Semi may already be long gone, just like S and X.